А какие девушки в тихом уголке ЛА? :)

[El Zorro]

Сообщение от Муся

Ну вот как все благополучно завершилось. Наконец то мы поймали этого женоненавистника, поработителя нас несчастных. Слышь, Кошачество, признавайся, ты такой?

Да уж, вывели сексиста на чистую воду.
Ненавистный угнетатель женщин, запирающий их на кухне (босыми и беременными - как положено ), не дающий им образования и зажимающий их по части карьерного роста.
Ибо всякому известно - лишь семейные обязанности да дети (которые сами по себе являются лишь плодами безжалостной сексплуатации) мешают женщине доказать своё превосходство над мужскими шовинистическими свиньями!

[Ana]

О каком превосходстве Вы говорите? Это не соревнование. Наличие или отсутствие какого-либо органа не является преимуществом или недостатком.

[El Zorro]

Сообщение от Ana

О каком превосходстве Вы говорите? Это не соревнование. Наличие или отсутствие какого-либо органа не является преимуществом или недостатком.

Ах, оставьте. Вам прекрасно известно, что агрессивно-соревновательное отношение к противоположному полу всегда было свойственно многим феминисткам.

[Ana]

Сообщение от El Zorro

агрессивно-соревновательное отношение к противоположному полу всегда было свойственно многим феминисткам.

Это оксюморон. Агрессивно-соревновательное отношение и феминизм несовместимы.

[El Zorro]

Сообщение от Ana

Это оксюморон. Агрессивно-соревновательное отношение и феминизм несовместимы.

Ха-ха-ха!!!

[Ana]

Это всё равно что сказать миролюбивый и терпимый шовинизм. Сами понятия противоречат друг другу. К сожалению, бытует мнение, что феминистки просто ненавидят мужчин. Ну прямо как Вы и сказали. А ещё некоторые считают, что феминистки все поголовно синие чулки или лесбиянки. Эти стереотипы от незнания и от неуверенности в себе.

[El Zorro]

Сообщение от Ana

Это всё равно что сказать миролюбивый и терпимый шовинизм. Сами понятия противоречат друг другу. К сожалению, бытует мнение, что феминистки просто ненавидят мужчин. Ну прямо как Вы и сказали. А ещё некоторые считают, что феминистки все поголовно синие чулки или лесбиянки. Эти стереотипы от незнания и от неуверенности в себе.

Знаете, многие говорят, что христианский Бог - это исключительно любовь и сострадание. Что не помешало крестовым походам, Варфоломеевской ночи и прочим радостям, во имя этого самого Бога сотворённым.
Не стоит идеализировать феминизм, знаете ли.

[Ana]

Если кто-то дискредитирует идею, она от этого не меняется. Я уже сказала, что в таком понимании феминизма виноваты стереотипы. Если какая-то обозлённая на весь белый свет женщина кричит, что все мужики - козлы, то не стоит её сразу называть феминисткой. Равно как и мужчину, который говорит, что все бабы - уж не знаю кто, не является борцом за права мужчин. Не от большого ума всё это.

[El Zorro]

Сообщение от Ana

Если кто-то дискредитирует идею, она от этого не меняется.

Вы в курсе, что многие то же самое говорят о коммунизме?
Идеи идеями, а их воплощение - то с чем люди сталкиваются в жизни. И феминизм отнюдь не является исключением в этом смысле.

[El Zorro]

Тех, кто владеет английским, наверняка повеселят эти цитаты:

"As long as some men use physical force to subjugate females, all men need not. The knowledge that some men do suffices to threaten all women. He can beat or kill the woman he claims to love; he can rape women...he can sexually molest his daughters... THE VAST MAJORITY OF MEN IN THE WORLD DO ONE OR MORE OF THE ABOVE."
Marilyn French (her emphasis)

'My feelings about men are the result of my experience. I have little sympathy for them. Like a Jew just released from Dachau, I watch the handsome young Nazi soldier fall writhing to the ground with a bullet in his stomach and I look briefly and walk on. I don't even need to shrug. I simply don't care. What he was, as a person, I mean, what his shames and yearnings were, simply don't matter."
Marilyn French; The Woman's Room.

"All patriarchists exalt the home and family as sacred, demanding it remain inviolate from prying eyes. Men want privacy for their violations of women... All women learn in childhood that women as a sex are men's prey."
Marilyn French

"All men are rapists and that's all they are."
Marilyn French, Author; (later, advisor to Al Gore's Presidential Campaign.)

"We live, I am trying to say, in an epidemic of male violence against women."
Katha Pollitt.

"All sex, even consensual sex between a married couple, is an act of violence perpetrated against a woman."
Catherine MacKinnon

"I believe that women have a capacity for understanding and compassion which man structurally does not have, does not have it because he cannot have it. He's just incapable of it."
Former Congresswoman Barbara Jordan.

"The traditional flowers of courtship are the traditional flowers of the grave, delivered to the victim before the kill. The cadaver is dressed up and made up and laid down and ritually violated and consecrated to an eternity of being used."
Andrea Dworkin

"The media treat male assaults on women like rape, beating, and murder of wives and female lovers, or male incest with children, as individual aberrations...obscuring the fact that all male violence toward women is part of a concerted campaign."
Marilyn French

"Probably the only place where a man can feel really secure is in a maximum security prison, except for the imminent threat of release."
Germaine Greer.

"Men who are unjustly accused of rape can sometimes gain from the experience."
Catherine Comin, Vassar College. Assistant Dean of Students.

"Men renounce whatever they have in common with women so as to experience no commonality with women; and what is left...is one piece of flesh a few inches long, the penis. The penis is the man; the man is human; the penis signifies humanity."
Andrea Dworkin

"You grow up with your father holding you down and covering your mouth so another man can make a horrible searing pain between your legs."
Catherine MacKinnon (Prominent legal feminist scholar; University of Michigan, & Yale.)

"Man-hating is everywhere, but everywhere it is twisted and transformed, disguised, tranquilized, and qualified. It coexists, never peacefully, with the love, desire, respect, and need women also feel for men. Always man-hating is shadowed by its milder, more diplomatic and doubtful twin, ambivalence."
Judith Levine

"Men's sexuality is mean and violent, and men so powerful that they can 'reach WITHIN women to fuck/construct us from the inside out.' Satan-like, men possess women, making their wicked fantasies and desires women's own. A woman who has sex with a man, therefore, does so against her will, 'even if she does not feel forced.'
Judith Levine, (explicating comment profiling prevailing misandry.)

'To call a man an animal is to flatter him; he's a machine, a walking dildo."
Scum Manifesto. (Valerie Solanas)
((Delaney Nickerson, of the American Coalition for ABUSE AWARENESS, refers to the False Memory Syndrome Foundation as "The Fucking Molesters Society". (Miami Herald, April 3, 1995) The ACAA is a lobbying group, which includes Ellen Bass (co-author of THE COURAGE TO HEAL), and Rene Frederickson, leading feminist psychotherapist and strong proponent of repressed memory theory.))

((At the STONE ANGELS satanic ritual abuse conference in Thunder Bay in February, 1995, the following was contained in the handouts at a conference supported financially by the Ontario Government: FMS stands for: FULL OF MOSTLY SHIT; FOR MORE SADISM; FELONS, MURDERERS, SCUMBALLS; FREQUENT MOLESTERS SOCIETY.))
"The male is a domestic animal which, if treated with firmness...can be trained to do most things."
Jilly Cooper, SCUM (Society For Cutting Up Men.)

"Women have their faults / men have only two: / everything they say / everything they do."
Popular Feminist Graffiti

"I feel what they feel: man-hating, that volatile admixture of pity, contempt, disgust, envy, alienation, fear, and rage at men. It is hatred not only for the anonymous man who makes sucking noises on the street, not only for the rapist or the judge who acquits him, but for what the Greeks called philo-aphilos, 'hate in love,' for the men women share their lives with--husbands, lovers, friends, fathers, brothers, sons, coworkers."
Judith Levine, My Enemy, My love

"There are no boundaries between affectionate sex and slavery in (the male) world. Distinctions between pleasure and danger are academic; the dirty-laundrylist of 'sex acts'...includes rape, foot binding, fellatio, intercourse, auto eroticism, incest, anal intercourse, use and production of pornography, cunnilingus, sexual harassment, and murder."
J. Levine; summarizing comment on the WAS document, (A southern Women's Writing Collective: Women Against Sex.)

"All men are good for is fucking, and running over with a truck".
Statement made by A University of Maine Feminist Administrator, quoted by Richard Dinsmore, who brought a successful civil suit against the University in the amount of $600,000. Richard had protested the quote; was dismissed thereafter on the grounds of harassment; and responded by bringing suit against the University. 1995 settlement.

"I want to see a man beaten to a bloody pulp with a high-heel shoved in his mouth, like an apple in the mouth of a pig."
Andrea Dworkin; from her book Ice and Fire .

"Men are rapists, batterers, plunderers, killers; these same men are religious prophets, poets, heroes, figures of romance, adventure, accomplishment, figures ennobled by tragedy and defeat. Men have claimed the earth, called it "Her". Men ruin Her. Men have airplanes, guns, bombs, poisonous gases, weapons so perverse and deadly that they defy any authentically human imagination.
Andrea Dworkin, Pornography: Men Possessing Women

"On the Left, on the Right, in the Middle; Authors, statesmen, thieves; so-called humanists and self-declared fascists; the adventurous and the contemplative, in every realm of male expression and action, violence is experienced and articulated as love and freedom."
Andrea Dworkin, Pornography: Men Possessing Women.

"I was, in reality, bred by my parents as my father's concubine... What we take for granted as the stability of family life may well depend on the sexual slavery of our children. What's more, this is a cynical arrangement our institutions have colluded to conceal.".
Journalist Sylvia Fraser

"We are taught, encouraged, moulded by and lulled into accepting a range of false notions about the family. As a source of some of our most profound experiences, it continues to be such an integral part of our emotional lives that it appears beyond criticism. Yet hiding from the truth of family life leaves women and children vulnerable."
Canadian Panel on Violence Against Women.

Catharine MacKinnon ( ) maintains that "the private is a sphere of battery, marital rape and women's exploited labor." In this way, privacy and family are reduced to nothing more than aspects of the master plan, which is male domination. Democratic freedoms and the need to keep the state's nose out of our personal affairs are rendered meaningless. The real reason our society cherishes privacy is because men have invented it as an excuse to conceal their criminality. If people still insist that the traditional family is about love and mutual aid--ideals which, admittedly, are sometimes betrayed--they're "hiding from the truth." The family isn't a place where battery and marital rape sometimes happen but where little else apparently does. Sick men don't simply molest their daughters, they operate in league with their wives to "breed" them for that purpose.
Donna Laframboise; The Princess at the Window; (in a critical explication of the Catharine MacKinnon, Gloria Steinhem et al tenets of misandric belief.)

"I feel that 'man-hating' is an honorable and viable political act, that the oppressed have a right to class-hatred against the class that is oppressing them."
Robin Morgan, Ms. Magazine Editor.

"I claim that rape exists any time sexual intercourse occurs when it has not been initiated by the woman, out of her own genuine affection and desire."
Robin Morgan

"And let's put one lie to rest for all time: the lie that men are oppressed, too, by sexism--the lie that there can be such a thing as 'men's liberation groups.' Oppression is something that one group of people commits against another group, specifically because of a 'threatening' characteristic shared by the latter group--skin, color, sex or age, etc. The oppressors are indeed FUCKED UP by being masters, but those masters are not OPPRESSED. Any master has the alternative of divesting himself of sexism or racism--the oppressed have no alternative--for they have no power but to fight. In the long run, Women's Liberation will of course free men--but in the short run it's going to cost men a lot of privilege, which no one gives up willingly or easily. Sexism is NOT the fault of women--kill your fathers, not your mothers".
Robin Morgan.

"Heterosexual intercourse is the pure, formalized expression of contempt for women's bodies."
Andrea Dworkin

"In a patriarchal society, all heterosexual intercourse is rape because women, as a group, are not strong enough to give meaningful consent."
Catharine MacKinnon, quoted in Professing Feminism: Cautionary Tales from the Strange World of Women's Studies.

"And if the professional rapist is to be separated from the average dominant heterosexual (male), it may be mainly a quantitative difference."
Susan Griffin, Rape: The All-American Crime.

"The institution of sexual intercourse is anti-feminist".
Ti-Grace Atkinson, Amazon Odyssey (p. 86).

"(Rape) is nothing more or less than a conscious process of intimidation by which all men keep all women in a state of fear".
Susan Brownmiller, Against Our Will p.6.

"When a woman reaches orgasm with a man she is only collaborating with the patriarchal system, eroticizing her own oppression..."
Sheila Jeffrys.

[Ana]

Сообщение от El Zorro

Вы в курсе, что многие то же самое говорят о коммунизме?
Идеи идеями, а их воплощение - то с чем люди сталкиваются в жизни. И феминизм отнюдь не является исключением в этом смысле.

Не с воплощением, а со стереотипами. Вот начнут несколько человек по дурости говорить, что в США коммунизм. Будут говорить убеждённо, кто-то по незнанию поверит и решит, что да, то что он видит в США и есть коммунизм и так постепенно люди не слишком образованные или просто не слишком умные начнут считать также. Ну и что? Наступит ли от этого в США коммунизм? Сомневаюсь. Вот и с феминизмом такая же история.
Поймите, феминизм это не борьба с мужчинами, не борьба против мужчин. Это борьба за равные возможности и права. Не секрет, что на одной и той же должности, с равной выслугой лет и пр. мужчина получает большую зарплату. Не секрет, что мужчины быстрее продвигаются по служебной лестнице и это опять же при равных способностях. Способности могут быть равными, а признание этих способностей не всегда. Почему? Феминистки хотят чтобы люди оценивались по своим делам, а не по половым признакам.

[El Zorro]

И ещё немного цитат:

From 'A feminist Dictionary; ed. Kramarae and Triechler, Pandora Press, 1985:

MALE:...represents a variant of or deviation from the category of female. The first males were mutants...the male sex represents a degeneration and deformity of the female.

MAN:...an obsolete life form... an ordinary creature who needs to be watched...a contradictory baby-man...

Letter to editor: "Women's Turn to Dominate". "......Clearly you are not yet a free-thinking feminist but rather one of those women who bounce off the male-dominated, male-controlled social structures. Who cares how men feel or what they do or whether they suffer? They have had over 2000 years to dominate and made a complete hash of it. Now it is our turn. My only comment to men is: if you don't like it, bad luck--and if you get in my way I'll run you down."
Signed: Liberated Women, Boronia Herald-Sun, Melbourne, Australia. 9 Feb., 1996.


"If the classroom situation is very heteropatriarchal--a large beginning class of 50 to 60 students, say, with few feminist students--I am likely to define my task as largely one of recruitment...of persuading students that women are oppressed," said Professor Joyce Trebilcot of Washington University, as quoted in Who Stole Feminism: How Women Have Betrayed Women.


"Life in this society being, at best, an utter bore and no aspect of society being at all relevant to women, there remains to civic-minded, responsible, thrill-seeking females only to overthrow the government, eliminate the money system, institute complete automation, and destroy the male sex."
Valerie Solana, SCUM Manifesto (Society for Cutting Up Men.)


"Men, as a group, tend to be abusive, either verbally, sexually or emotionally. There are always the exceptions, but they are few and far between (I am married to one of them). There are different levels of violence and abuse and individual men buy into this system by varying degrees. But the male power structure always remains intact."
Message on FEMISA, responding to a request for arguments that men are unnecessary for a child to grow into mature adulthood.


And:
Another posting on FEMISA: "Considering the nature and pervasiveness of men's violence, I would say that without question, children are better off being raised without the presence of men. Assaults on women and children are mostly perpetrated by men whom they are supposed to love and trust: fathers, brothers, uncles, grandfathers, step-fathers."

[Drunia]

(в ужасе оглядываясь по сторонам, умоляюще) Эта ... Зорро, ты кончал бы копи-пастить, а? Только вроде, тьфу-тьфу, подлечились ... Не дай Бог, рецидив спровоцируешь.

[El Zorro]

Сообщение от Drunia

(в ужасе оглядываясь по сторонам, умоляюще) Эта ... Зорро, ты кончал бы копи-пастить, а? Только вроде, тьфу-тьфу, подлечились ... Не дай Бог, рецидив спровоцируешь.

Мне можно. А ОН обещал исправиться.

[Drunia]

Сообщение от El Zorro

Мне можно.

(завистливо) Хорошо вам, сексистам! Все вам можно!
(мечтательно) А так дивно ветка начиналась ... С Натальи Орейро ...